About the priesthood, shepherding and clergy
What is priesthood, shepherding, clergy, what is the meaning and difference between these concepts? How to choose a confessor? Is it possible to move from one spiritual mentor to another? What is young age, why did it arise, is it a problem for the Church? Archpriest Vadim Leonov, a teacher at Sretensky Theological Seminary, answers these and other questions.
– Father Vadim, you have been teaching at Sretensky Seminary, prepare future clergy. Tell me, please, what is the priesthood, shepherding, clergy, what is the meaning and difference between these concepts?
– It seems to me that you should ask this question to a priest who served at the Throne of God for 50 years. He would answer you, drawing from his rich spiritual experience, which I do not yet have.
– And yet, do you already have an idea of how these concepts relate?
- It worked out a little. The words you indicated are not formal terms with strictly defined content, therefore many authors use them in their own way, filling them with their own meaning. At first glance, it seems that everyone is talking about the same thing, but if you listen, it turns out that everyone is talking about their own. Very often the priesthood, shepherding and clergy are understood as one and the same thing. There is no doubt that these words are interconnected, but I think it is not worthwhile to completely identify them. The priesthood is a gracious supernatural gift that is given to a specific chosen person through the performance of a special church sacrament over him. Shepherding is one of the manifestations of the gift of the priesthood, that is, the priest receives in the sacrament the grace-filled power and authority to help people ascend to God. And clergy is even more narrow concept: the ability to enlighten and heal the souls of people from sin with the help of God’s grace. To summarize, we can say that from the moment of ordination every priest already has the fullness of gifts in order to realize himself as a priest, and as a shepherd, and as a confessor, but in reality everything turns out differently: a person has received the gift of God, but what to do with it and how to use it correctly - you have to learn this for the rest of your life. Therefore, naturally, young priests are in no hurry to become confessors, so as not to cause harm. Our goal is to help reunite a person with God. And God Himself knows how and with what to heal a suffering soul.
– Did the Old Testament priesthood have similar duties?
- Of course not. The overwhelming majority of Old Testament priests were demand executors. After returning from Babylonian captivity, Ezra and Nehemiah tried to encourage them to become teachers and mentors of the people, but few listened to this. Therefore, at the time of the Savior’s coming into the world, in Jewish society there existed, independently of each other, a class of teachers (rabbis) and a class of priests, who were often at enmity with each other.
– Can every ordained priest serve as a confessor or are there any restrictions?
– Every priest has the opportunity for this, but in reality, to be a confessor, the gift of the priesthood is not enough; it also requires a great personal experience victory over one’s sins and passions, and necessarily firm faith and strong rootedness in the Orthodox spiritual tradition, that is, the spiritual experience of many generations, which is passed on from experienced confessors to students informally, in real life and communication, through obedience. It is even possible that a person who does not have holy orders can become a confessor. An excellent example of this from recent history is the blessedly reposed Elder Paisius the Holy Mountain, who spiritually cared for hundreds of lay people and monks, but did not have holy orders.
– What is a confessor for a clergyman?
– This is a spiritual foundation, a lifeline, a mentor, a prayer leader, a good advisor, a source of many benefits that cannot be listed. Without a confessor, a young clergyman is doomed to endure many sorrows. Imagine that some person who had previously only seen the ice from afar was given skates, a stick and released as a player hockey team. What will happen to him after 20 minutes of play? It’s good if they can only get by by calling an ambulance. And in the spiritual life of a young clergyman without a confessor there will be many traumas.
– What advice could you give about choosing a confessor??
– Don’t look for the elders: they are all already “busy”, they are tightly surrounded by spiritual children so that you most likely will not break through their “brotherhood of the ring”. Don’t try to become a child of wonderful but already famous priests: they are terribly overloaded. Don’t run to distant lands – it’s pointless. Your confessor is somewhere nearby. Find a priest who loves God, the Church, and for whom the spiritual is more important than the earthly. If such a priest treats you with love, but without people-pleasing (this is important!), then this is quite enough.
– Is it possible to change your confessor? How can you not offend anyone?
– This question, when I was still a seminarian, was asked to the famous confessor of the Trinity-Sergius Lavra, Archimandrite Kirill (Pavlov), and he firmly and unequivocally answered that you can move to another confessor if you do not benefit from communication with the previous one. Of course, such a transition is an event that must take place in exceptional cases. A flower that is constantly transplanted from one flowerbed to another will most likely wither. In order not to offend your former confessor, you do not need to present your transition as a demonstration of protest and from now on pretend that “I don’t know this priest and I don’t want to know.” Try to stay on good terms with him human relations.
– How deeply can a confessor influence a person’s life? What does a confessor have no right to do?
– The opportunities are very large, and the framework of these relations is formed by both sides. In other words, the influence of a confessor is possible to the extent that he himself wants and to the extent that his spiritual child allows him. IN certain cases the degree of influence can be very strong, so being a confessor is an extremely responsible church service. In the patristic works there are many instructions about what a spiritual mentor should be, but I have not seen a clear listing of the rights and responsibilities of a confessor. I really like the wonderful “Special Word to the Shepherd” by St. John Climacus, which, it seems to me, every priest should re-read regularly. It is clear that the confessor must see a unique god-like personality in every person who comes to him and cannot suppress his consciousness and freedom with his instructions.
– Is it necessary to go to the elders for spiritual advice?
– The tradition of eldership was interrupted in Soviet times, so it is better to talk about experienced spiritual fathers. At turning points in life, especially if they are related to a person’s spiritual problems, the instruction of such a confessor can be very useful, but provided that the person has confidence and is ready to implement the advice given to him.
– Is there any modern Russia elders?
– The confessor of the Trinity-Sergius Lavra, Archimandrite Kirill (Pavlov), answered this question wonderfully: “There are old people, but I don’t know the elders.”
-What is young age? Why did it arise, is it a problem for the Church?
– Young age is a growing pain of a young priest who imagines that he has something that he does not yet have, tries to act as a spiritual mentor, without possessing the corresponding gifts and abilities. Young age arises from conceit and easily finds a place in the heart of a priest if he has some zeal for spiritual life, but does not have an experienced mentor over him. Such a problem exists, but in order to solve it, it is necessary to see the opposite extreme - lukewarmness and indifference to the priesthood. When a priest, under the pretext of his inexperience and lack of education, avoids diligent service and, in fact, is concerned only with himself, this is a disaster. The prophet Ezekiel sternly warned about this danger: “Thus says the Lord God: Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who fed themselves!” (Ezek. 34:2). A young priest must walk between these two extremes. This is why you need a mentor.
– Which people did you meet that greatly influenced your life path?
– It seems to me that every meeting, even a fleeting one - somewhere in the subway or on the street, has its own meaning and impact, which we most often do not realize. In my life there have been many meetings with different people, and for all this I thank the Lord, but I cannot single out any one of them that immediately turned my life upside down, except for the first meeting with God. When I was still a student at a secular university and was trying to figure out religious issues on my own, the idea came to me to conduct a spiritual experiment. I thought that if God exists and He is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent, as they write about Him, then I will turn to Him personally, and let Him answer me, then all my doubts will disappear. And I said to Him: “Lord, if You exist, then let me know about it, and I will serve You.” After this prayer, events began to happen in my life, as a result of which I became a priest.
– What is the most important quality for a priest?
– Sacrifice.
– Who is your example of shepherding?
– Our Lord Jesus Christ.
– What books help you in your pastoral ministry?
– Gospel and Missal.
– Father Vadim, what main qualities should the future wife of a clergyman have? What should a future mother be prepared for?
- Being a mother is special kind spiritual achievement. She must be ready to become her husband’s assistant, to come to terms with the fact that her husband-priest does not belong to her alone. Be able to manage children and home. Say goodbye to girlish dreams even before the wedding and go not where you want, but where the Lord will lead your husband-priest. Simply put, she must be a saint.
– What “pitfalls” are found in young families, and how to overcome them?
– The main stone is selfishness. Selfishness kills love, gives rise to quarrels and meaningless family “squabbles.” Family selfishness is treated by common family activities - both spiritual (family prayer, confession with one confessor, works of mercy performed together), and mental (raising children together, reading books, communicating with relatives and friends), and physical (taking care of the house, rest, etc. .). At the same time, each family member must correspond to the divine purpose. The husband is the head of the family, he is responsible for everything that happens in it and solves its problems; the wife is the husband's assistant, and the children are the assistants of both father and mother.
– What problems in parish life are, in your opinion, of paramount importance?
- I think that the main problem in the modern parish – personal. Maybe this is a legacy of Soviet times, but most people enter church with caution, hide their faces from each other, try to hide behind artificial masks even from God, and we, priests, do not always strive to peer into the faces of our parishioners and help them open up in their best qualities. In most cases, you don’t need to be some kind of spiritual elder, but simply treat a person like a human being, explain to him the path to God, help him a little, and then the miracle of transformation happens before our eyes human soul. This is so amazing, and you need so little! Just understand that parishioners are not a group of individuals who came to pray, but specific individuals with their own names, destinies and thirst for God, and treat them like family.
Our guest was a candidate of theology, cleric of the Patriarchal Metochion of churches in Zaryadye, Archpriest Vadim Leonov.
The conversation was about what Christianity says about man and about the image of God in man.
A. Pichugin
- “Bright Evening” on light radio. Dear listeners, hello! Here, in this studio Alla Mitrofanova...
A. Mitrofanova
- ...Alexey Pichugin.
A. Pichugin
And we introduce our guest: Archpriest Vadim Leonov, a teacher at Sretensky Seminary, associate professor, candidate of theology and cleric of churches in Zaryadye, will spend the next hour with you and us, this is such a place, probably many people know it, because the Rossiya Hotel was located there ", right next to the Kremlin. Father Vadim is a specialist in Christian anthropology. And therefore I would like to ask the very first question: what exactly is Christian anthropology? What meaning do we put into this phrase? Because for some reason in the 90s we liked to call this word, to mean very a large number of various scientific manifestations. We had cultural anthropology and a faculty cultural anthropology in one of large universities, Christian anthropology. Although initially, if we talk about purely scientific field, I know about what's on Faculty of Biology Moscow University, for example, has an anthropological department that trains specialists in the field of studying the origin of species.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Good evening, our dear listeners! You are right, Alexey. Anthropology in modern times cultural space a lot: political anthropology, social anthropology, psychological anthropology, philosophical anthropology, anthropology in general. And then there is also Christian anthropology. And what is the difference, the fundamental difference between Christian anthropology and all these scientific disciplines? First, this is a theological subject. If we turn to secular anthropologies, we see one thing general property: they take a certain part of a person, a sphere of his life, activity, and study in detail, reconstruct his existence as a person and as social subject, in different aspects. But all these spheres relate to the visible, sensory world. And all these reconstructions are, of course, very interesting, bright in content, but they do not isolate and formulate the basis of man, thanks to which this multifactorial complex being becomes integral. Just imagine: you are sitting here at the table now, you see, hear, breathe, blood flows through your veins, some other processes are taking place in your body, and all this is harmonized into one integrity called “man”. And we must admit that this basis for human integrity is not visible either from the point of view of psychology, or from the point of view of sociology, or from the point of view of physiological anthropology, which you spoke about, which is taught at the university. It is not visible anywhere in the scientific field. Why isn't it visible? Yes, because it does not lie in the material world and is not yet accessible, at least by means scientific knowledge. It is not in the plane of physics, it is in the space of metaphysics. "Meta Physics" Greek word- “for nature”, that is, for natural basis. It's obvious, right? Because I exist as an integral being, and in this regard, both my soul and body are harmonized. Where is this center of organization? Of course he's out there somewhere, right? scientific means they cannot “get” it, penetrate it, or reconstruct it.
A. Mitrofanova
Maybe someone will say that this is the brain.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
He can say that it is the brain, but he must not just say it, he must prove it. So far this has not been proven.
A. Mitrofanova
Oh, you know, this is a separate big conversation. As for neurobiology and all the studies of modern brains, and those research results are paradoxical, and in some ways even a blow to a person’s pride. For example, Tatyana Chernigovskaya’s lectures talk a lot about this topic. It is not known who belongs to whom - the brain to us or we to it? And apparently, we belong to him, and not he to us. Therefore, it is quite possible that the center of harmonization... I understand that you, as the author of a book on Christian anthropology, as a priest...
A. Pichugin
Yes, this also needs to be said about the book.
A. Mitrofanova
- …main message You say that the center of harmonization is really from the realm of metaphysics. But just neuroscientists can object to this.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
They, of course, can object to this, but I repeat that this must be proven. Consistent neuroscientists do not make such bold statements as you did.
A. Mitrofanova
I stated this on my own behalf, of course, this is a gag.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
It's clear. I can offer you as a recommendation: read, for example, the work of our wonderful doctor, a surgeon and at the same time a person, deeply knowledgeable about nature man, and a holy man - St. Luke of Voino-Yasenetsky, his work “Spirit, Soul and Body”. He is precisely polemicizing against such a naive idea that the brain is the center of human harmonization.
A. Pichugin
But you must admit, since the time of St. Luke, since the 50s, at least, and the book was written even earlier, after all, 60 years have passed, during which the science studying neuroprocesses has gone far ahead.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Of course, she went far ahead, but she never found this center of human harmonization.
A. Mitrofanova
Well, let’s leave this conversation aside, because there is currently no neuroscientist among us with whom we could competently communicate on this topic. And behind neuroscientists’ backs, it seems to me that you and I have no right, ethically or otherwise, to talk about what they think and what they don’t, not being neuroscientists. Therefore, let's better talk about Christian anthropology.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
And yet, Allah, I will interrupt you. There is one theological argument that, in general, explains everything that we are discussing. Why am I, a priest, and not only me, but in general the Orthodox tradition says that this is a metaphysical foundation in a person. This is proven very simply - many years of centuries human experience. When the soul is separated from the body, the brain remains in the coffin. And the soul continues to think, feel, experience, and bear responsibility at the Judgment of God. If the center of harmonization were connected specifically with brain cells, then nothing like this would be possible.
A. Pichugin
You know, Father Vadim, I don’t want to argue with you either. But, on the other hand, if this argument is brought into discussion with a non-believer, it will not matter to him.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Friends, I’m not writing a book about how to convince an unbeliever. The book is about what knowledge about a person in religious experience, in Orthodox religious experience, has been accumulated, preserved, and this knowledge is systematically presented. Here the goal is completely different. For man, first of all... The book was written, I repeat, not to convince anyone external, but in order to provide a means of knowledge for those who are trying to lead a spiritual life, he must understand: who I am. Because when you enter into spiritual life and do not understand who you are, then your path to God will be wandering in the dark. Of course, you will hear some instructions: pray, fast. But when you start praying and fasting, you will have some inner experiences, maybe suffering, maybe joy. And you have to identify it, you have to understand it, you have to understand: is it right or wrong? And if you do not have a basic understanding of what a person is from a Christian point of view, you will make serious mistakes.
A. Pichugin
So let's start with this - who is a person from a Christian point of view?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
A. Mitrofanova
You know, here the following question immediately arises: if man was created in order to live in unity with his Creator, then what should we do then? After all, almost the entire history of mankind is about how we do not live in unity with the Creator, but live in defiance of Him, in spite of Him, in a dispute with Him. We return the tickets to Him, announce that He is dead, etc.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
A. Mitrofanova
And what to do about it then?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
A. Mitrofanova
And now I’m not even asking about this. It is clear that throughout the history of mankind, most of the time and most people still did not question the presence of God in life, etc. Another question is that it is not possible to live with Him in the very unity that you said that we are called to. Because even the whole story... That's what it is Old Testament? This is the story of God’s relationship with one people - an agreement was concluded with them, with this people, by God. And God always remains faithful to his part of the agreement, and the people violate it all the time. And what to do about it?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
And what to do about it? And so be it - we must do everything we can to ensure that these people convert. The fact is that God never forcibly brings anyone to Himself; this is divine education. God is patiently waiting for when and who wants to live with Him. Because, I repeat, initially God creates man as a being who will live with Him in love and freedom. And therefore, of course, as an omnipotent being, He could break the Israeli people, and all of humanity, and Christianity. But then main idea- the destiny to live in love and freedom will not be realized. Therefore, God knocks, as it is said in the Apocalypse: “I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens it, I will come in and have supper with him.” This is how it happens - God knocks on the heart of each of us; whoever opens it will live with Him. And Christianity must convey this good news to everyone. And in in this case the book we are discussing is a small drop in this river.
A. Pichugin
Archpriest Vadim Leonov - associate professor, teacher at Sretensky Theological Seminary, candidate of theology today is the guest of the "Bright Evening" program on bright radio.
A. Mitrofanova
You probably often have to face the questions that if you are a specialist in Christian anthropology, then, in fact, how did man originate? How did he appear? biological species, or not only as a biological one, but also as some other, different kind of light? There are different scientific points view on this matter is the Christian view. And in general, in principle, not only Christian...
A. Pichugin
Do they contradict each other? Or not? Here is the question.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Of course, there are many concepts about how man originated. But Christianity in this case is not based on any archaeological or historical facts, but relies on the Revelation of God. Who knows about man better than the One who created him - the Lord God? In this case, Christianity turns to the most authoritative primary source - to its Creator. And God revealed something to us. Of course, I didn’t discover everything, but I discovered something. And what He revealed He kept through His prophets, through His holy apostles in Holy Scripture And Sacred Tradition The Orthodox Church, this treasure is scattered like priceless beads. And in the 20th century, a huge demand arose for these beads to be systematically presented, because all of humanity is, as Lévi-Strauss said, that “the 20th century is the century of the anthropological crisis” - when people They came to the conclusion that the development of man without God, since the Renaissance, gave rise to 2 world wars and a terrible genocide. In general, the 20th century is pure blood.
A. Pichugin
Can't we say that science, scientific knowledge, everything that we are now learning with the help of the same evolution is also human knowledge about God and about His plan for man, about the creation of man?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
You are so casual - evolution. The Bible does not have this category - evolution. Involution - that is, degradation - is spelled out there. God creates, according to the Holy Scriptures, because He is good, He is perfect, He creates all creatures perfect. Therefore, if we go by the text of the Holy Scriptures, then of course the idea of Charles Darwin, and moreover, its development in modern times, is met, to put it mildly, with great contradiction. And I still can’t remove it. It doesn't work, and I think it never will. I will now express my personal point of view that, of course, the evolutionary hypothesis is not sufficiently substantiated. But under no circumstances am I going to have any discussion on this topic here now. I am sure that this same hypothesis, which primarily serves a certain ideology, will exhaust itself through the work of honest scientists, of whom there are already quite a lot. And it will exhaust itself just as the idea of the spontaneous generation of life, the concept, the scientific theory of the spontaneous generation of life, exhausted itself in its time. Do you know about her?
A. Pichugin
Yes, sure.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
This is a wonderful theory that...
A. Mitrofanova
Some people know, some don't. Please explain.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Let me explain for the listeners: it still goes back with its roots to Aristotle - the greatest scientist, philosopher, one might say, standing at the foundation European science. The idea of the spontaneous generation of life is that the whole world is saturated with some kind of vital energy, and life arises in any space if it is given some time for self-organization. Primitively, it looks like this - there was even such an experiment in the 18th century: if you throw dirty things into a dark closet, sprinkle them with millet, then within a week there will be mice there. This is, of course, funny. Then they began to conduct more correct, as it seemed, scientific experiments in the 19th century: a piece of meat - after a few days it rots, worms appear there. It is clear that there are no worms in meat - this is the spontaneous generation of worms. This was proof of this scientific theory about the spontaneous generation of life, until Louis Pasteur carried out disinfection - and the worms appeared. The idea of the spontaneous generation of life, which just preceded Darwin’s evolutionary hypothesis, existed for more than 2 thousand years. It was considered scientific and proven. So science proceeds through denial of itself. I understand that now the prevalence of this hypothesis is very high, and everyone has somehow become accustomed to it, but let’s look forward.
A. Pichugin
Science or...
Prot. Vadim Leonov
- ...through self-denial.
A. Pichugin
There are, after all, discoveries that have appeared in recent decades - finds of the first people, finds of australopithecines, etc., etc. And you can simply trace the dynamics of the development of these skeletons and the evolution of what eventually became homo sapiens.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
The dynamics of the development of skeletons, or rather creatures, are not lining up. This is one of the problems in justifying the evolutionary hypothesis. The fact is that among the finds there are creatures with monkey characteristics, of course, different from the monkeys that we now see; or creatures called humans, different from us in height, weight, brain volume, but nevertheless with specific anthropological characteristics of a person. But creatures, so that, let’s say, he has both monkey and human characteristics at the same time - for example, you know that a monkey’s foot looks like a palm - this is a specific monkey characteristic.
A. Mitrofanova
Comfortable to grip.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes. And at the same time there are specific human characteristics relating to the structure of the jaw, the volume of the brain and others. So, it is still not possible to find a creature so that there is one and the other.
A. Mitrofanova
That is, the transition phase.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes, there is no transitional being. This problem has not yet been resolved. And if we seriously discuss it, then again, the hypothesis has not been proven. But it serves ideology - the ideology of life without God. And that's why she's popular. And that’s why it’s advancing not only at the level scientific community, and above all ideologically. A few years ago, the European Parliament adopted a resolution that if the evolutionary hypothesis is criticized in European schools, then this approach is considered incorrect and should be prohibited. This reminds me very much of the Soviet period, when everything that deviated from party regulations had to be prohibited simply because it contradicted party regulations.
A. Mitrofanova
Father Vadim, let us now avoid talking about what the European Parliament has decided, because we risk falling into generalizations here. European schools After all, the education system is very different, depending on the country. For example, in Germany they teach a subject compulsory in all schools in an amazingly interesting way, which is called “religion,” that is, “religion.” And how interesting the textbooks are, how educated the teachers are! I went, I talked to them, I saw how this was happening. And I saw children who come after these lessons and continue discussing some topics with their parents. This is all very interesting. Let us not go in this direction now, this is a separate big conversation. But I would like - when we, in fact, talk about Christian anthropology, we talk about the fact that man is the image and likeness of God, this is God’s creation, this is God’s beloved creation. Moreover, the only creation of all that was created by God, about which God said that “this is very good.” He created the earth, water, land, sky - it was good. Animals: leviathan, hippopotamuses - everything in the world, looks at them and says: “This is good.” And he looked at the man and said: “Very good.” Why?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Because only man among the creatures of the visible world has the image and likeness of the Divine. And moreover, a person, possessing this image, is destined to rule over this world. Remember, the Holy Scripture says so: “And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field.” This is the principle of dominion, dominance, which is inherent in a person, it does not lie in the fact that I can break a birch tree in a field, turn the river beds back, but in the fact that my personal spiritual change becomes a condition for the existence of the world around me. The question, by the way, is interesting, I always ask it to our students in class - God, when he planted paradise for man, He brings Adam there and says: “Keep and cultivate it.” Well, it’s understandable to preserve paradise - to protect it so that no one damages it - neither he himself nor the animals. And to cultivate means to transform, to make better. But how can you make better what the all-perfect God created?
A. Mitrofanova
Logical, good question.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
How can you improve what God has created? Just imagine: you were brought into the hall Tretyakov Gallery, to the hall of icon painting. And they say: “Here are the icons of Daniil Cherny, Andrei Rublev. Keep and cultivate these icons." You probably still have some idea of how to store it: to protect...
A. Mitrofanova
Maintain temperature conditions. I have no idea how, but there are specialists who know.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes, it can be built. What is cultivating? Should I take paints and brushes and paint something on the icons of Daniil Cherny, Andrei Rublev and Theophan the Greek? It is nonsense.
A. Mitrofanova
This is blasphemy.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes. And yet the task has been set. How should it be done? And in the Holy Fathers, in Gregory of Nyssa, in St. Maximus the Confessor, this line runs through the entire patristic tradition - it is described that a person must change the world by changing himself. Since each person is a microcosm, all the created principles of the world are represented in him: the world of plants, the world of animals, and the world of minerals - not because he evolved from them, but God originally arranged it this way - then, being in unity and harmony, these created principles are connected with the surrounding Universe. And the way in which these created principles will be transformed in him through grace will be reflected, just as the circles on the water will diverge to the surrounding Universe. And thus, a person, rising to God, would, together with himself, raise the entire Universe. Vladimir Nikolaevich Lossky, a remarkable Russian theologian of the 20th century, has such wonderful words, he says: “God created man as a hypostasis of the created cosmos, and the created cosmos is a continuation of his corporeality.”
A. Mitrofanova
Is it possible now in Russian - translation from Russian into Russian, to decipher what it means?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Man is a personification, that is, a kind of intercessor, a person, a priest from the entire Universe, the created Universe. But it’s as if the whole Universe follows him - therefore, it’s as if grace is transmitted through him to the world. And so that you understand that this mechanism has been established and exists to this day, and is operating, I will give you a few illustrations. Let's remember: when God expels Adam from paradise, He says to him: “Cursed is the earth because of you,” that is, because of you. She has not sinned in anything, but since you are the ruler and you have sinned, she will suffer, she will now have thorns and thistles, but she will now bring them to you. You didn't listen to God, now she won't listen to you. Therefore, the degradation of man was reflected in the degradation of the Universe. The Apostle Paul in the Epistle to the Romans in the 8th chapter says that “the whole creation was subjected to futility, not voluntarily, but according to the will of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself would be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of the sons of God.” That is, the whole creation is waiting: when will man be saved? Because when a person is saved, then the world will be saved. The person is like that key person in the Universe. And whoever owns a person owns the world. Therefore, the devil needed to take possession of man. And Christ, saving a person, saves the whole world. We call Him the Savior of the world. It seems that formally we would have to say that He is the Savior of men, people. And He is the Savior of the world, because by saving a person, He saves the whole world.
A. Mitrofanova
But does God—forgive me for speaking in such anthropomorphic characteristics—does God have a goal to take possession of man? If he needed to take possession of a person, he would have done so in the first place.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Save a person. The devil's goal is to take possession of a person. And God’s goal is to save man and return him to his original state, to his original calling, which he had but has not yet fulfilled. In fact, this is the destiny of man, which was given in heaven, it is reborn in Christianity. Remember, in the Gospel the Lord says to his disciples: “Be perfect, just as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” This is what was said to Adam, He seems to remind. People have forgotten about this, they are thinking about how to live these 70-80 years, that’s all. And He says that you have an endless perspective of life. Therefore, it is clear why we are immortal beings, because we have an immortal goal - to be perfect, like our Heavenly Father.
A. Pichugin
Let's continue in a minute literally. Archpriest Vadim Leonov is a teacher at Sretensky Theological Seminary, associate professor, candidate of theology and cleric of the churches of the Patriarchal Metochion, churches in Zaryadye. Alla Mitrofanova...
A. Mitrofanova
- ...Alexey Pichugin.
A. Pichugin
We'll be back in a minute.
A. Mitrofanova
Once again, good bright evening, dear listeners! Alexey Pichugin, I am Alla Mitrofanova. And let me remind you that our guest today is Archpriest Vadim Leonov, associate professor at Sretensky Theological Seminary, candidate of theology and cleric of the churches in Zaryadye of the Patriarchal Metochion. We are talking today about what Christian anthropology is, since Father Vadim is the author of an anthology and textbook on this discipline, scientific discipline theological. We are trying to figure out what, in fact, within the framework of the Christian tradition, Christian teaching, is the view on the origin of man, on the purpose of man, on why we are here, what our life is about and what will happen after. Father Vadim, you and I ended the first part of the conversation with the idea that the purpose of a person in its entirety, it will, in fact, be fulfilled not here, not in this life, but there, apparently, when... Or maybe I did not understand you correctly? You said that in Christianity this very human nature is restored. But you understand how - after all, if Adam was given the commandment to cultivate the garden, maybe we are fulfilling this commandment. The commandment that is given to us in the New Testament: be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect - it is so transcendental. How to fulfill it in this life is not very clear. So what should we do?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
The fact of the matter is that this commandment is not given simply for earthly life, for 70-80 years. Earthly life is given to a person only so that he can determine himself, firmly determine himself - with whom will he be in eternity? With God or without God?
A. Mitrofanova
That is, this task is still... That is, I understood correctly - which must be solved in eternity.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
It cannot be solved in full, because to reach God, to be perfect, like the Heavenly Father is perfect, is impossible for a person. But you can strive for this goal, and you can do it indefinitely. Therefore, it becomes clear why man is given immortality - endlessly great goal, an infinitely great life. But to start this life, you need to firmly determine yourself: who will I be with? Form a certain vector of movement - either towards God, or from God. If this vector of movement is formed, then yes, the movement continues, of course, beyond the threshold of death, after the Second Coming of Christ in the future Kingdom of Christ. It will not be just a static state, as in the Islamic concept of heaven - lying down and enjoying life, and that's it. This will be spiritual perfection in God, but without obstacles, without sinful temptations. Remember how one of the Beatitudes of Christ says: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.” That is, they will be satisfied with the truth of God, life according to the truth of God, a righteous life, because there will no longer be temptations or obstacles to realizing it.
A. Mitrofanova
This is a somewhat more complex picture of the world than the one that those people who suffer here on earth will certainly receive some kind of reward, redemption, etc. in the Kingdom of Heaven. This picture of the world is about the fact that we, being here in this life, must do as much as possible in order to tune our receptors to God. Because then we will have more possibilities there to continue that plan for us.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
It is necessary to transform both personality and nature so that it becomes suitable for the future life. If you have not grown wings, and you are placed to live on the clouds, even with all the best intentions, you will fall and be broken. Therefore, wings must grow, and for this life is given. If you haven’t grown up, even with all the best beginnings, you won’t be able to live and exist there. This is, of course, figurative, but you understand what I'm talking about.
A. Mitrofanova
Yes, when I think about such things, I call it to myself “pumping the heart muscle.” Because you can be a genius, with a brain the size of half a planet, but if the heart muscle is not pumped up, then it will be very difficult in eternity. It seems to me. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this is so.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
If we talk about Orthodox anthropology, about Orthodox asceticism, then, of course, there is a holistic approach to man. That is, a person must be transformed in soul, body, mind, heart, and will, and be formed as a person. Orthodox asceticism is wonderful. And, in fact, one of the goals of this book, which we are discussing today, is to convey that the Church has not only a holistic vision of man, but also a holistic vision of a transforming man.
A. Pichugin
Let's understand the terms then. Sorry that I always have to stop you and ask you to clarify something. But when we say “asceticism,” most often we mean strict monastic life, but not our secular city life.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Of course, secular city life This is not asceticism. But it is quite possible to combine life in the world and the principles of ascetic life, and there are many such examples. Not only somewhere in the lives of saints in ancient times, but also in our lives. It is clear that asceticism is not just a formal set of instructions that everyone must follow. This is your individual plan spiritual development, which, of course, in theory, your spiritual mentor should help you create, based on who you are, where you are, what you can, what you can’t. Of course, after simply reading the Philokalia and starting to construct these things yourself, the likelihood of mistakes is very high. Very big. But, again, in order to avoid these mistakes as much as possible, to some extent this book is also intended. So that at least a person understands who he really is. And a person who tries to present asceticism simply in the form of a formal set and project it onto himself, then really faces the contradiction that you are talking about - he does not see how to combine the principles of John Climacus with his work and family, which means it’s all for me no need.
A. Mitrofanova
John Climacus or work and family. (Laughs.)
Prot. Vadim Leonov
A. Mitrofanova
Either one or the other.
A. Pichugin
I knew people who had the theology of the Greek fathers - what Church, what Easter, what services?! For what? They no longer knew either the church or secular calendar, but the theology of the Greek fathers was there, it completely absorbed their lives.
A. Mitrofanova
Apparently, nothing good, unfortunately.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
This is amateur activity, it is extremely dangerous in spiritual life, and the Greek Holy Fathers also warn about this. Friends, I want to say that in this case Orthodox asceticism resembles secular medicine. You understand perfectly well that information about every medicine and a description of every disease is now available on the Internet. And the temptation to start self-medication is very, very great. This accessible knowledge creates the illusion that I can do everything myself. Exactly the same temptation exists in spiritual life - the Holy Fathers are accessible, churches are accessible, open, I myself am so smart, I know everything, I read everything, now I will come up with principles of spiritual life for myself. And as a result, it turns out that nothing works - in best case scenario. And sometimes there is a tragic outcome.
A. Mitrofanova
Let us not look towards the tragic outcome now. We have hope that everything will be fine in eternity. In any case, I would really like it to be so. But in order for this to be so, it is obvious that some serious efforts must be made. And from the point of view of the discipline, the branch of theology that you are engaged in - Christian anthropology - what should a person (I don’t like this word - “do”) with himself, how should he try, in what way to change himself? What should you first try to notice about yourself and how to pay attention to it?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
For a beginner, I would pay attention to two details. The first detail and the first step that he must take is to turn to God with personal prayer. God is omnipotent, all-good, He is love, but He does not force anyone. And until a person goes, turns his face to Him and at least says: “Lord! Who are you? I want to know You,” - until a personal dialogue arises between a person and God, all ascetic efforts, some kind of imitation of someone, will be fruitless, and sometimes, perhaps, they will bring negative result. The beginning is a personal appeal to God. God never rejects such an appeal, but on the contrary, welcomes it in every possible way. There are many such examples. I even admit that I also had such a spiritual experiment in my life. I was a student and one day I came to the Kirillo-Belozersky Monastery; I was still such, one might say, an unbeliever. But the northern monasteries of Russia made a strong impression on me: Kirillo-Belozersky, Ferapontov Monastery, frescoes of Dionysius. When I looked at this, I thought: “Well, it cannot be that human deception existed for so long and created such beautiful things. Now, if Christianity is a deception, it cannot give birth to something so beautiful.” This thought haunted me throughout this trip. And then - I even remember this place, near the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery by the lake - I said right on the shore of this lake: “Lord! If You exist, let us know about You somehow. I will try to live as best I can, according to Your commandments, to do something, but You somehow respond so that I understand that You exist.” I turned to Him personally. And this trip was a turning point in my life. I won’t say that God reached out from heaven and said, “Go there,” or thunder and lightning struck, no. But something like this happened tectonic shift. It was the end of the 80s, people began to appear around me who began to bring not only what was then forbidden - then the prohibitions began to disappear - but samizdat Christian literature: John of Kronstadt, “The Philokalia”...
A. Pichugin
And you studied in Europe, wasn’t it easier there?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
There is no Orthodoxy in Europe, practically it is poorly represented, and what is represented...
A. Mitrofanova
It is just widely represented.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
This is in modern... And I studied in Budapest, at the University of Budapest. It is clear that there was a small parish of the Moscow Patriarchate there. But this was after I became a church member, I already went there to study. But my turning point happened earlier, when I was still studying in Moscow. And people began to appear around me who began to explain to me what Christianity essentially is. And I already perceived this as God’s answer to my request. So I am convinced of this - that the first step is...
A. Mitrofanova
Personal appeal.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Personal appeal to God. And the second step is, of course, you need to get at least a basic idea of who God is and who man is. This is mine too firm belief, which I have already tested to some extent on myself and on my unfortunate parishioners. (Laughs.) And besides, I can justify it theologically, for that matter. Let’s say there is a wonderful work by Theophan the Recluse “What is spiritual life and how to tune in to it.” These are letters addressed to a girl who decided to lead
Christian life, a secular girl, simple, sincere. And Theophan the Recluse gives her instructions systematically, consistently elevating her to high steps spiritual life. 80 letters. So, the first 22 letters out of these 80 letters are essentially short course anthropology. He explains who a person is, why he was created, what his nature consists of - body, soul, spirit, how they interact. What is will, mind, feelings. Then he begins to explain how they have degraded, changed, what passions are. And then he teaches her prayer, the fight against passions, etc. 22 letters, that is, a quarter of the text, is a short course in anthropology. And this applies not only to Theophan the Recluse. Discover, for example, the famous ascetic classic - Abba Dorotheus. The first two words - he first explains to his monks who man is, why he was created, what his purpose is, what happened to him. And then he teaches them prayer and good deeds.
A. Pichugin
Archpriest Vadim Leonov, associate professor at Sretensky Theological Seminary, candidate of theology, is today the guest of the “Bright Evening” program on bright radio. Father Vadim, what do you think - there is an opinion that different people in Christianity have different levels of perception of things. For some, what we are talking about today is probably not enough. For some, a Sunday sermon from the pulpit is enough for their Christian life. But, indeed, not everyone is given the ability to comprehend - not everyone wants, not everyone likes it, not everyone is interested in it - to comprehend some deep things that are rooted in Eastern theology. Some people have a different path in Orthodoxy.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes, that's absolutely right. In fact, there are quite a lot of people who may not need this theology, but have very strong faith, trust and mentors. Such a tradition, for example, has developed in monasteries, but it also exists in early Christianity. Open the Didache, the Teachings of the 12 Apostles - this is one of the early Christian texts, which arose shortly after the last New Testament texts. Sometimes even in some Churches the Didache was included in the canon of New Testament books. So, this book is very simple in content, you can see how it is all built. The Didache begins with the fact that there is a path of life, and there is a path of death. The path of life and the path of death are described. If you want, choose the path of death; if you want, choose the path of life. If you choose the path of life, we will explain to you how to walk along it - this is a simplified outline of this book. Then it describes how to walk along the path of life, followed by a set of instructions. If you trust the author of this book, then, of course, you don’t have to ask yourself deep philosophical and theological questions. And for such people, of course, there is no need to plunge into theological depths, because they are not burdened by these problematized thoughts and doubts. They look at the world more simply and they go to God more easily. For our intelligentsia, for people who think it’s almost impossible to pass so easily, it is necessary for them to understand: why am I taking this step, and what will happen to me, and why is this exactly happening to me? For such people we need books, for such people we need systems...
A. Pichugin
These are most likely humanists. Or people who have become humanists within themselves, people who strive for knowledge through a certain kind of literature, through working with sources.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
That is, people who cannot overcome some misunderstanding of their faith. This, as a rule, is a lack of faith - I may upset some of the listeners.
A. Pichugin
It seems to me, on the contrary, that this is good, this is a certain path of knowledge. And if I’m so gullible, tell me that white is black and black is white, I’ll probably believe it. Father will tell me that this is so, and this is so, I will believe him. Another priest will tell me that everything is wrong, I will believe it too. But here this is an attempt at some kind of introspection of what is happening.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
It is clear that we now do not belong to the traditions of such natural Christian growth. We are in a very complex, contradictory world, often aggressive towards Christianity, so we naturally question not only what is outside Christianity, but also what is inside Christianity. We are already formed this way, and this also has a right to exist. I do not criticize this position in any way.
A. Mitrofanova
I apologize, but I still allow myself to note in this regard that people who consider themselves to be Christians are sometimes also very aggressive towards the world around them, and this does not make the dialogue easier, to put it mildly, but aggravates it very much. So you said that external world aggressive towards Christianity, and I thought that sometimes this was mutual. I don’t know whether those people who are so aggressive towards the world around them are how Christian they are - it’s not for me to judge that. Not for me, definitely. But this is a mutual problem.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Okay, let's touch on this issue since you brought it up. And I will return - yes, there is, as it were, one situation, and there are other situations. Let's say a person is immersed in Christian tradition. A classic, textbook example is a monastery, properly organized. There are spiritual traditions there, there is an elder, there is a confessor. When a person falls into this current, he simply trusts it. I remember this feeling that I had on Athos when I first got there: some kind of strange world- everyone prays, it’s as if it’s natural, everyone tries to fulfill some gospel commandments - and all this is somehow natural. It feels like I’m in the current of a river, which is taking me where I need to go, and I just need to trust it. And there is no need to flounder here. This is completely opposite to the feeling that I experience in the world - when I always feel like a person who is rowing against the current, trying. And it’s hard - the current still carries you away, but you still row. And on Mount Athos I rest precisely - not because I lie on the sand, of course I don’t lie on the sand, but I walk and pray in monasteries as best I can. But I rest because I don’t have to resist, I’m carried where I need to go. We must trust the tradition that exists here. And this is a completely different life, you know. Of course, in the context of such a life, too many philosophical and theological questions only dull and slow down this movement, rather than help.
A. Mitrofanova
Remember the parable about the three elders who sat on the island and prayed. A missionary sailed to them and found that they were praying and praying, but they didn’t know any prayers except “Three of you, three of us, have mercy on us!” - this is how they addressed God. A very famous parable. And he decided to teach them the Lord’s Prayer. I taught and taught, I was exhausted, but I taught in the end. He sat back in the boat, sailed away, looked, and they shouted to him from the shore: “Stop, stop, father!” He turns around - one of these elders is rushing towards him across the water. He says: “What are you doing?” “Yes, you understand,” says the man standing on the water, “Our Father like you...” And then what? Forgot". Here too - great intelligence does not always happen...
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Woe from the mind.
A. Mitrofanova
Yes, grief from mind - that's for sure, yes. This also happens, but this does not mean that you need to fundamentally avoid those opportunities to expand the boundaries of your own knowledge that the world around you offers. It can sometimes be very useful, incredibly interesting and extremely exciting. And why, if not for this - not for exploring the world - did the Lord create us so versatile?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
I will also touch on the topic that you touched on when commenting on my reasoning - that sometimes Christians are aggressive about the world. Don't forget, my dears, that...
A. Mitrofanova
Or those people who seem to be Christians.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Yes Yes. The church is a hospital. And people come there and are not instantly healed. When you come to the clinic, you don’t meet everyone there absolutely healthy in the corridors and offices...
A. Pichugin
They come in sick and come out healthy.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
And even: they come in sick and come out healthy - this is also a naive idea...
A. Mitrofanova
This is some kind of ideal option.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
It is clear that it does not exist in reality. It’s the same in the Church, the Church is a hospital. And if a person is in the Church, this does not mean that he is already completely healthy and holy. It is natural that he came, and it is right that he came to the Church as to a hospital, but he has not yet been healed, he is still on the path to recovery, we must help him. Therefore, I am not afraid of such cases. This, of course, can be sad and bad, but we need to approach it creatively. The man finally came to the Church - that’s it, he came to us, we must help him. But simply condemn, say: “Here, you are disgracing us, get away from here and away from us”...
A. Pichugin
What if he has been in the Church since childhood? Now a generation of people has already grown up, many of whom are now over 20 years old, who have been in the Church from birth. Which, by the way, does not add to their knowledge, because they take many things for granted and do not think about them.
A. Mitrofanova
And they don’t dig, they don’t look, by the way.
Prot. Vadim Leonov
There is such a problem, yes, when a person has already formed a certain stereotype, our Pharisee behavior, our native Orthodox behavior - a stereotype of behavior that seems saving and self-sufficient, comfortable to him. And he doesn't want to get out of it. And this, of course, is sad, because man is a developing creature - again we return to anthropology - he must improve. I must be able to do something the next day that I couldn’t do yesterday. Or at least in a year I should have virtues that I didn’t have a year ago. I must develop. If I do not develop, then, again, I am not fulfilling my divine destiny - that means I am not yet a person in in every sense words, it means something is wrong in my life. And of course, if you say that a person has preserved himself, then you can already make a diagnosis - he has spiritual problems. But which ones specifically - this needs to be sorted out personally.
A. Mitrofanova
It's incredibly interesting to talk to you. And since Christian anthropology has a huge number of topics that it includes, for example, your lecture that I listened to was devoted to the creation of man, man and woman - about why we are so different. Why was it necessary to create from the face of Adam not the same person as him, but another, that is, a woman different, why was it necessary - different from him? So amazing interesting story it turns out. I would really like you to come to us again, and we will talk about this topic and many others. What, in fact, is human vocation and how to realize it, how to find this meaning of life - after all, it can have different people different shapes. The content may vary somewhat, but final goal one. How can you determine and find this for yourself? What is this, along what paths and how to designate this search vector for yourself in life? Let's try?
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Let's. I will be glad to meet you again.
A. Mitrofanova
Come. And thank you very much for this conversation. Let me remind you that the “Bright Evening” program was conducted for you by Alexey Pichugin and I, Alla Mitrofanova. And in our studio was Archpriest Vadim Leonov, an associate professor at Sretensky Theological Seminary, a candidate of theology and a cleric of churches in Moscow Zaryadye.
A. Pichugin
Thank you! Christian anthropology is the theme of our program. And we should probably remind our listeners once again that Father Vadim’s book has been published, it’s called “Fundamentals of Orthodox Anthropology,” it was published by the Moscow Patriarchate publishing house.
A. Mitrofanova
And “Anthology on the Fundamentals of Orthodox Anthropology” is a collection of texts, also published by the Moscow Patriarchate.
A. Pichugin
Thank you, all the best!
A. Mitrofanova
Goodbye!
Prot. Vadim Leonov
Best wishes! Goodbye, dear radio listeners.
An interview with Archpriest Vadim Leonov, associate professor of Sretensky Theological Seminary, who back in 2010 outlined the outline of such a phenomenon as Orthodox psychology, which should replace secular psychology and provide answers to those questions that the paradigm of academic psychology could not answer.
Associate Professor of Sretensky Theological Seminary and PSTGU Archpriest Vadim Leonov took part in the seminar “Development psychological education in theological educational institutions of the Educational Committee of the Russian Orthodox Church.” At the end of the seminar, Father Vadim answered questions from a correspondent from the press service of the Moscow Theological Academy.
– Father Vadim, what is the scope of your scientific interests?
– I am interested in Dogmatic Theology in general and Orthodox anthropology in particular, but I will immediately make a reservation that I do not consider these theological disciplines to be sciences in the traditional sense of the word.
– Give examples of the use of psychology in your priestly practice?
– I do not use psychology in my priestly ministry and believe that a priest should be just that: a priest and not turn into a psychologist. The gift of the priesthood, church sacraments, and received spiritual education are quite sufficient for full-fledged pastoral service; one must be able to use it. If the priest has not mastered this wealth, then additional knowledge of psychology will not bring him any benefit. Everyone must do their job. Of course, observing from the outside, one can interpret certain actions of the priest in psychological aspect, but such interpretations remain only assumptions of an external observer. Priest in everyone life situations must be, first of all, a priest. Don't try to sit in the wrong sleigh. It happens that in some situations a priest cannot help a person with spiritual means and then slides into the level of psychotherapy in order to at least somehow help his neighbor. Maybe this is not bad, and after such a meeting a person is consoled, but if something similar happened in my life, then I always considered such cases to be my spiritual defeat. A priest should not base his ministry on spirituality. Christ gave his disciples the gift of the Holy Spirit: “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they will be forgiven; on whomever you leave it, it will remain on him,” and if the priest descends to the level mental psychotherapy, then exchanges his birthright for lentil stew (See: Gen. 25, 30-34).
What I have said does not mean that I am against psychology. Moreover, I am a supporter of the study of psychology in seminaries, so that it is taught by competent professionals who would help seminarians see the true content and value of this science without the illusions that surround it. The study of psychology is necessary primarily because in the modern world it is a very striking phenomenon that powerfully affects the consciousness of many people. This cannot be ignored. Moreover, in some social environments Psychology occupies niches that previously belonged exclusively to religion. Modern culture, art, social or personal life often oriented in line with certain psychological ideas, therefore, in order to understand the meaning and logic of human actions it is necessary, willy-nilly, but to get acquainted, at least in the most general form, with the prevailing psychological theories. Based on this, the need to study psychology for future clergy is obvious. Moreover, such a development of events in the field of spiritual education was foreseen by St. Theophan the Recluse back in the 19th century. The use of psychological knowledge by a priest on the principle of addition is quite possible, but psychology cannot be the basis for the ministry of a priest.
– Is there a danger of seminary students becoming too interested in psychology?
“This is a very real danger.” One of my former classmates at the Moscow Theological Academy became so interested in psychology that it crowded out his study of all theological subjects. After finishing his studies at the academy, he entered humanitarian university and began studying to become a psychologist. As far as I know, he never returned to the church environment.
In everyday life, there are many myths regarding psychology. In one of them, this science appears as a treasury of mysterious knowledge that can make a person spiritually strong, wise and perfect and, surprisingly, without God. This is reminiscent of the temptation of our ancient ancestors in paradise, when the serpent invited them to become gods without God: “in the day that you eat of them, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil” (Gen. 3:5 ). If a person with such illusions becomes interested in psychology, then he soon experiences deep disappointment, somewhat similar to the disappointment of our forefathers. For he will be offered many concepts, theories and speculations about various aspects human psyche and subjectivity, will provide some techniques that solve local problems interpersonal relationships and will give many different descriptions mental processes, but they will not give the main thing - a holistic vision of a person and opportunities for his full real growth. It turns out that this is exactly science... no less and no more. Therefore, a psychology course in seminaries is necessary and must be structured competently, professionally and objectively. If, after studying such a course, a seminarian at least develops a sober vision of psychology, this is already a sufficient result that justifies the time and effort spent.
– How do the practices of communication between a confessor and a child and a psychologist and a client intersect?
- Not with anything. It is fundamentally various areas. Of course, both the priest and the psychologist must see the person holistically, but the priest is called upon to awaken the spirit of a person and help him reunite with God, and the psychologist works in the sphere of the soul. They work, so to speak, on different floors. The goal of a confessor is to teach a person to communicate with God and further facilitate this in every possible way. If a person lives with God, then God Himself will heal, correct, enlighten, and do everything necessary in a person with His grace. The main thing for a priest, as well as for a doctor, is to do no harm. None of the people on their own is capable of spiritual improvement, even with enormous knowledge and life experience. Only God does this.
The work of a psychologist is directed to a different area. It is focused on normalizing a person’s state of mind and interpersonal relationships. If a psychologist sees a person who comes to him as a client, then this is sad. In this case, the psychologist is a craftsman, and one can only sympathize with the human client. However, one should not perceive all psychologists this way. Among them, many are deeply aware of the depth, greatness and dignity of a person and try to help him, to the best of their ability, as a person, and not as a client. Of course, psychotherapy is spiritual help, but in many life situations it is necessary and a competent religious psychologist can provide it. Since most of life’s problems have spiritual roots, one cannot expect a full recovery after such meetings, therefore many Orthodox psychologists strive not only to provide help, but also to bring a person closer to God, they offer to come to church, repent, take communion, and begin a virtuous life. Such psychologists bring real benefits to people, not only spiritually, but also spiritually. Therefore, there is no need to present all psychologists in only three types: psychic, businessman, artisan.
– What is your attitude to such a phenomenon as Orthodox psychology?
– Orthodox psychology is an idea that has not yet been realized, but I consider myself one of those optimists who believe that sooner or later it will definitely take shape as a special scientific direction V modern psychology. Sometimes they say that it is impossible to exist Orthodox mathematics, Orthodox physics, which means Orthodox psychology is also impossible. In my opinion, this is an erroneous statement. In relation to mathematics and physics, everything is true, but in relation to psychology and pedagogy, this logic is erroneous. Let me explain why. The basis of any science lies several a priori unproven ideas, in accordance with which it is carried out scientific activity, and these ideas largely determine this activity. We all remember from school course that the study of geometry began with the acceptance of a number of axioms. For mathematics and physics, the initial foundations, accepted a priori, lie outside the sphere of religious revelation, and therefore it is absurd to talk about their Orthodoxy or non-Orthodoxy. But for pedagogy and psychology, an initial anthropological model is necessary. Such a model always exists and largely predetermines the direction of development of these sciences, and the entire possible palette scientific results. For example, if based pedagogical approach lies the idea of man as a highly developed animal, then the corresponding pedagogical methods will be similar to training; if initially a person is presented as a complexly organized machine like a computer, then the methods of education will resemble programming; if we are based on the opinion that a person is formed exclusively under the influence of society and other external conditions, then the corresponding pedagogical methodology will be focused on the organization external environment person. The anthropological framework largely determines the direction, scale, content, means and possibilities of a particular pedagogical and psychological approach. In this regard, what prevents scientists from accepting the Orthodox teaching about man as the initial anthropological model? How is the anthropological model “man is the image of God,” based on two thousand years of experience of the Church, inferior to Darwin’s hypothesis, still not scientifically substantiated, that “man is a highly developed ape”? Who knows man best if not God the Creator? He gave us necessary knowledge about yourself, but science does not use them. Why? Just the power of their divinely revealed origin? This anthropological knowledge is confirmed by the real experience of many generations - why is this ignored by modern academic science? Maybe it's time to get rid of this bias? I am sure that over time Orthodox psychology will become a significant phenomenon in scientific life. Moreover, Orthodox pedagogy has already partially passed this path and has become an important direction in pedagogical science.
– What are the points of contact between Christian anthropology and Orthodox psychology?
– Christian anthropology is the substantive basis for Orthodox psychology. More precisely, Orthodox anthropology is a new coordinate system for psychology, in the space of which the spiritual content of already established scientific facts and theories, there is an opportunity for other interpretations of known phenomena with access to concrete real help to a person. This approach allows us to talk about the possibility of creating an Orthodox psychology. Similar attempts have already been made in pedagogy and they turned out to be very successful. A striking example– concept by K.D. Ushinsky, who based his pedagogical system on Orthodox anthropology. Work in this direction is now being carried out very actively. Of course, in this case, Orthodox anthropology is not an alternative to existing psychological knowledge but, as we have already said, it is a meaningful basis and frame of reference in which one can study a person and interpret the results obtained.
– What do you expect from the ongoing seminar?
– I hope that the stated goal will be achieved - substantive, methodological and methodological foundations psychology course for teaching in theological schools. And besides, I hope that this seminar will strengthen the sincere intentions of Orthodox psychologists who, based on their professionalism and personal enthusiasm, are trying to discover for themselves and others the spiritual wealth of the Church and thereby serve God and people.
Interviewed by Anastasia Shiryaeva
P.S. Article by Archpriest Vadim Leonov “The concepts of “Mind”, “Reason”, “Reason” in the patristic tradition" In the magazine " Psychological Science and education", 2011, No. 3
Archpriest Vadim Leonov
Archpriest Vadim Leonov
Basic information:
Archpriest Vadim Leonov
Academic degree: candidate
Academic title: assistant professor
Profile items: dogmatic theology