In Russian historiography there are personalities who are still ambiguously assessed by society. This list includes Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Nicholas II, Lenin, Stalin, Brezhnev. It is clear that interest in them is keen due to national significance figures. However, we also argue about military leaders. On the eve of the 70th anniversary of the Victory over fascism, people most often talk about Georgy Zhukov. Some consider him the “Marshal of Victory,” and others consider him a military leader who doomed hundreds of thousands of soldiers to a senseless death. Let's try to figure this out.
Enemy Characteristics
Before assessing the significance of Zhukov as a commander, it is necessary to understand with whom the Red Army fought in 1941-1945. It's not just about German troops oh, and about the army, which in this narrow historical period of time was the strongest in the world. It can be compared with the phalanxes of Alexander the Great, with Caesar's legions or with Napoleon's "La Grande Armee". Each of these military organizations had its own obvious competitive advantages before opponents and therefore was invincible (as long as this superiority took place). Infantry General Kurt von Tippelskirch wrote in this regard: “In the First world war and after it, the troops acquired new means of warfare, which after 1935 began to be introduced into the general armament of the German army in the most consistent manner. IN fighting The Germans introduced two new elements: operational use mobile formations and the use of aviation to support ground forces."
It was due to these innovations, according to the German military historian Werner Picht, that at the beginning of the Russian campaign Hitler's army was the most powerful fighting force Germany has ever had. The Germans were also strong because they relied on the economy and human resources of the conquered countries. “There was no frivolity in the ease with which the German youth, thirsty for exploits, with steel helmets on their heads or simply with uncovered bangs, passed through our part of the world (Europe - “SP”),” noted Werner Picht. - Opposing Bolshevism shoulder to shoulder with the armed forces of Finland, Italy, Hungary, Romania, as well as together with Slovak and Croatian units and volunteers from Spain. Sweden, Denmark and even from France, Belgium, Holland and Norway... they felt themselves to be the defenders of Europe." Units enriched with experience entered Russia victorious wars. “During the Second World War, the total defeat of the army followed immediately its brilliant historical victories, - stated Pikht. - In his last trip The German army had commanders of the most extraordinary abilities.”
In other words, historical circumstances developed in such a way that our soldiers had to fight the “German dark force” at the peak of its power, which did not exist in the past.
The price of mistakes
The Nazis, declaring themselves “defenders of Europe,” were no different from medieval barbarians, destroying civilians and destroying entire cities. German soldiers were especially merciless towards Soviet prisoners. Wehrmacht Lieutenant General Hermann Reinecke stated in September 1941 that “the Bolshevik soldier has lost all right to demand to be treated as an honest enemy.” Meanwhile, we were talking about millions. There is still no exact data on how many Red Army soldiers were captured in that fateful '41. In particular, a number of final German documents indicate that Eastern Front The Nazis captured about 3.9 million Red Army soldiers. This figure was given on February 19, 1942 at the Reich Economic Chamber by Ernest von Mansfeld. Most of them were captured in the so-called "cauldrons".
For example, in the “Kiev cauldron” 665,000 soldiers and commanders of the Red Army were captured, 884 tanks and 3,718 guns were captured. Of course, now it is easy to blame, say, Stalin, who did not agree to the withdrawal of troops. Meanwhile, in his decisions he relied on the opinion of the commanders. In addition, the very fact of the first victories, which destroyed the myth of the invincibility of the Wehrmacht, was politically important for the country. Such an event that would inspire Soviet people, the defense of Kyiv could have been quite successful, by the way, until the fall. And yet, the commander of the Southwestern Front, Mikhail Kirponos, overestimated his capabilities, declaring the following on September 14, 1941: “I repeat again: everything that is at our disposal will be used for the defense of Kyiv. We will complete your task - we will not surrender Kyiv to the enemy.” This example clearly shows how difficult it was to accept right decisions in that incredibly difficult combat situation. By the way, it was Zhukov who warned about the danger of encircling our troops.
First victory
It is appropriate here to cite the opinion of Eike Middeldof, a German military theorist and Wehrmacht staff officer. He believed that an ordinary Red Army soldier was not inferior, if not superior, to a Wehrmacht infantryman. The Russian soldier (the Germans considered all Red Army soldiers, regardless of nationality, to be Russian) was more fearless, more cunning, more resilient; he shot more accurately and fought better. But with the commanders it was exactly the opposite. And again, this was not due to any special superiority of German officers or generals. It was all about the innovative “toolkit” that the Wehrmacht commanders had at their disposal, namely radio communications, aviation, excellent optics, high-quality vehicles and armored vehicles, and verified combat regulations. But most importantly, in 1941 Soviet commanders did not have practical experience, which at the beginning of the war was truly invaluable.
That is why, against the backdrop of the disaster of the summer of 1941 military operation the liberation of Yelnya had a huge political significance. Its success was achieved through skillful planning and proper management troops. The counteroffensive by the forces of the 24th Army of the Red Army was carried out under the leadership of the commander of the Reserve Front, Zhukov. The victory was achieved due to competent artillery support through concentrated attacks on German positions, the coordinates of which were determined by reconnaissance. Shock groups were also used. It is important to note that the Red Army outplayed the Wehrmacht for the first time in trench warfare, attacking and displacing a stronger enemy with smaller troops.
The Germans had a group of about 70 thousand soldiers and officers, as well as 40 tanks, 500 guns and mortars of 75 mm caliber and above. On our side, the fascists were opposed by 60 thousand military personnel, 35 tanks, about 800 guns, mortars and rocket artillery installations. According to Colonel G. Khoroshilov and Major A. Bazhenov, the losses of the parties were: for the Wehrmacht - 45 thousand, including the wounded, for the Red Army - 31 thousand, including the wounded.
Zhukov and planning
Later - after the war - attempts were made to play Zhukov’s role in Elninskaya offensive operation 1941 to belittle and call this victory local. They say that the army commander appropriated the laurels of General K.I. Rakutin, but as for the set goal, it was not achieved. The same picture is “painted by researchers” like Rezun in relation to other operations. These “historians” set the task of contrasting the commanders of the Red Army with each other, for example, Zhukov and Konev. Or worse than that, they claim that “the Germans were simply showered with the corpses of our soldiers,” accusing the commanders of inhumanity or simply “stupidity.”
Meanwhile, all decisions passed through the filter of discussion. Georgy Konstantinovich wrote in his “Memoirs and Reflections”: “planning and preparing planned operations is a very complex, multifaceted matter, requiring not only sufficient time, but also a lot of creative effort. ...All planning is groundless if it is not based on scientific foresight possible move operations, forms and methods of armed struggle, with the help of which the goals set for the troops are achieved.” At the same time, Zhukov believed that “the war required a firm hand,” especially in the first two years, when defense industry has not yet provided the troops with the required amount of equipment and ammunition.
Saving Leningrad
On September 13, 1941, Zhukov headed Leningrad Front. Directing him to defense Northern capital, Stalin warned Georgy Konstantinovich about the almost hopeless situation of the city. Indeed, the defending troops were bleeding and had no reserves. The German attacks, on the contrary, became more and more powerful. “Field Marshal von Leeb went out of his way to carry out Hitler’s order at any cost to end the Leningrad operation before the start of the German offensive near Moscow,” Zhukov recalled about those days.
Georgy Konstantinovich changed defense tactics, constantly regrouping troops and concentrating artillery in the most dangerous areas. At the same time, he launched counterattacks. According to him, the Germans, accustomed to stunning their opponents powerful blows, behaved nervously in defense, immediately calling for reserves and reinforcements from neighboring areas. Such large-scale regroupings, as a rule, did not correspond to the degree of threat and introduced an element of turmoil into the well-established offensive regulations of the Wehrmacht. So, on September 19, on the orders of Zhukov, units of the 8th Army launched an attack from the Oranienbaum bridgehead, thereby frightening Leeb, who removed the mechanized corps from the Pulkovo Heights and sent it to the Peterhof sector. If this had not happened, the Nazis would have broken into Leningrad that same day.
Having lost valuable time for the blitzkrieg, the Nazis were forced to stop the attack on Leningrad and block it. Zhukov actually saved the city from destruction. Total losses(killed, wounded and missing) in Leningrad defensive operation amounted to 344,926 Red Army soldiers and sailors Baltic Fleet. The Wehrmacht lost 315,909 of its soldiers. These figures were given by a retired colonel, candidate historical sciences Zhores Artyomov.
"Don't spare the soldier"
Leningrad did not surrender to the enemy, largely thanks to the stubborn resistance of our troops. Arriving in Leningrad, Zhukov issued the so-called execution order, which said:
"1. Cowards and panickers who abandon the battlefield, retreat from occupied positions without permission, throw away weapons and equipment, should be shot on the spot.
2. The military tribunal and the front prosecutor ensure the implementation of this order. Comrade Red Army soldiers, commanders and political workers, be courageous and steadfast.
NO STEP BACK! FORWARD FOR THE HOMELAND!"
Military historian and writer, bibliographer of Konev and Zhukov, Sergei Mikheenkov, commenting on this document, noted that Georgy Konstantinovich was indeed distinguished by a tough disposition and in dramatic moments often threatened his subordinates with executions. However, in reality, those responsible for failure to carry out orders were “tribalized,” and Headquarters was interested in fair, rather than punitive, verdicts. In particular, General Dolmatov, whose army was defeated in the Rzhev area, was not shot, since the court, having thoroughly studied the case, did not establish the “deadly guilt” of the commander. Brigade commissar S.I. Yakovlev, whom Zhukov ordered to be executed in front of the line, was not shot either. The Commissioner was stripped of his awards and demoted.
Studying the materials of that time, Sergei Mikheenkov does not deny the fact of executions of traitors and cowards, but he did not find those executed directly on the direct orders of Georgy Konstantinovich. By the way, the phrase “Do not spare the soldier. Women are still giving birth,” said not Zhukov, but Voroshilov. The director spoke about this State Archive RF Sergey Mironenko.
Here it is appropriate to give figures for the losses of some operations led by Zhukov.
In the counteroffensive near Moscow (until January 7, 1942) Western Front Zhukova total number Over the entire period of the battle, 748,700 people irretrievably lost 101,192 soldiers and officers (13.5%), as well as 160,038 Red Army soldiers were wounded. In Operation Iskra, also known as the Second Battle of Lake Ladoga, 302,800 Red Army soldiers participated, 33,900 soldiers (11%) were killed and 81,142 were wounded. Its result was the breaking of the siege of Leningrad.
During Operation Bagration, Zhukov coordinated the actions of the First and Second Belarusian fronts. WITH Soviet side 2.4 million Red Army soldiers took part, 178,507 soldiers (7.4%) were killed, 587,308 people were wounded.
It is important to note that in the Great Patriotic War our doctors returned 72.3% of the wounded and 90.6% of the sick soldiers to duty. At the same time, exact data on the rehabilitation of German soldiers wounded on the territory of the USSR are unknown. However, the number of burials of Germans who died on our soil has been calculated - approximately 3.2 million official graves. According to search groups, about 800 thousand more Nazi burials were found. Thus, we're talking about, about at least 4 million Germans killed in the Soviet Union in 1941-1944, and not about 2.5 million indicated in German sources. These data were provided by the Center military history Institute Russian history RAS.
In the Vistula-Oder operation, which was also led by Zhukov, 2,112,700 Red Army soldiers took part, 43,251 soldiers (2%) were killed, 115,783 people were injured. According to the German historian Burkhart Müller-Hillebrand, during these and other battles in Poland and Germany, Wehrmacht losses amounted to 1.5 million missing and captured. The number of killed Nazis, in his opinion, can only be judged hypothetically, but given the degree of mutual bitterness, there may be even more.
Photo at the opening of the article: Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov before the start Berlin operation/ Photo: TASS
This interview seemed to me unworthy of a high-ranking government official and scholar-historian, which I considered necessary to report senior management states; at that time, Mr. D.A. Medvedev was the President of Russia, and Mr. V.V. Putin was the Chairman of the Government.
To complete the picture, I present my letter again.
Mr. President Russian Federation
Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev,
To Mr. Prime Minister of the Russian Federation
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin
from a citizen of the Russian Federation
Vladimir Vladimirovich Samarin
Appeal.
On July 7, 2011, the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper published an interview between Larisa Kaftan and the Director of the State Archives of the Russian Federation, Doctor of Historical Sciences Sergei Mironenko (http://kp.ru/daily/25716.3/914287/).In this interview, he said, in particular (answer to the fourth question of the published text): "For Soviet power it didn’t matter who was a hero or who was not a hero; in general, the person was nothing. The famous words of the Soviet commander: “We need to save the equipment, but the women give birth to new soldiers.”- it's about attitude towards a person. Therefore, there is no need to repeat the historical inventions of the Soviet regime and worship non-existent idols, just as we should not forget real heroes. After all, there were real heroes, they defended Moscow, but no one cared about them then. There is such a thing as historical truth. Interpretations of events may be different, but we will never clear the truth of ideological layers if we consider as a fact the fiction invented to please the rulers. Then it’s no longer history, not science.”
It was surprising that, when quoting a certain “Soviet commander,” Mr. Mironenko did not mention his name, but the destiny of a scientist-historian is the accuracy of facts. Actually, in the same answer he says:
I decided to find the truth and establish the fact - who is this ruthless Soviet commander, who uttered the phrase quoted by Mr. Mironenko, for which he used the full power of the World computer network Internet, namely Google and Yandex search services.
However, all links to this phrase in the form it was quoted by Mr. Mironenko, lead exclusively to... all the same interview with Mr. Mironenko “ Komsomolskaya Pravda", for discussion of this interview or to other attempts to find out its authorship caused by this interview.
Having made the search conditions softer, I discovered that in Runet (that is, in the Russian-language part of the Internet) a similar phrase is attributed to Marshal S.M. Budyonny, who, as commander of the Reserve Front (that is, in September or October 1941), allegedly said: “We bombarded them with cannon fodder, why should we feel sorry for the soldiers, the women are giving birth to new ones. But where can I get horses?”
The phrase sounds dashing, but none of the resources citing it has the slightest indication of the original source. At the same time, I am absolutely sure that if such a source existed in reality, it would not be at all difficult to find such a convincing propaganda trump card.
One might even think that the original source of this quote, somewhat reinterpreted, is the story “The Tribunal” by Mikhail Weller (first published in Ogonyok No. 24/4699, 2001):
“Budyonny was covered with small beads and scratched with a feather. Gorky cleared his throat loudly into his handkerchief, blew his nose and wiped away his tears:
- Darling, don’t you feel sorry for the soldiers who were killed in vain? Writhing on the ice with a buckshot bullet in your stomach is not comme il faut... in the sense of not comfort. Worse than a noose. But all the Russian people, yesterday’s peasants... you deceived them, they trusted you.
“And for us nobles, we only value our belly.” - Budyonny was glad to have the opportunity to break away from the letter. “And the soldiery, the cannon fodder, the gray cattle - we don’t give a damn about the smoke, we don’t care.”
Zhukov waved his hand:
“Women will give you new soldiers.” Russia is great. I would put it to work - it wouldn’t be a pity. The operation was unsuccessful. Criminal!”However, here the words dedicated to the childbearing duties of long-suffering Russian women are put into the mouth of a new historical character- Marshal G.K. Zhukov.
That these words were spoken by Zhukov was authoritatively told to the people by Eduard Volodarsky, the author of the script for the series “Penal Battalion,” in an interview with Mark Deitch, published in the newspaper “Moskovsky Komsomolets” No. 1386 dated December 22, 2001 (http://www.mk .ru/editions/daily/article/2004/11/26/99990-proryiv-shtrafbata.html):
“— In one of your interviews, you called Zhukov a “butcher”...
- It wasn’t me who called him that. That's what the soldiers called him - at the front Zhukov had a nickname: Butcher.
For some reason, everyone forgets about Zhukov’s attitude towards the soldiers. General Eisenhower writes in his memoirs how he saw a huge field near Potsdam, covered with the corpses of Russian soldiers. Fulfilling Zhukov's orders, they stormed the city head-on - under dagger fire from the Germans. The sight of this field amazed Eisenhower. He felt uneasy, and he asked Zhukov (not verbatim, but I vouch for the meaning):
“Why the hell did this Potsdam surrender to you? Why did you sacrifice so many people for him?”
In response, Zhukov smiled and said (I remember these words, reproduced by Eisenhower):“It’s okay, Russian women still give birth.”
Marshal Zhukov possessed the cruelty that has long been characteristic feature Russian generals. Only a few took care of the soldiers. Suvorov, Brusilov, Kornilov... That's probably all. The other soldiers did not spare them. AND Soviet generals were no better."
In Dwight Eisenhower's book Crusade to Europe" various points are mentioned that can be interpreted ambiguously, but this or a similar phrase allegedly heard by the future US President from Zhukov is not only not in the Russian translation, but also in the English original.
In addition, Potsdam took 1st Ukrainian Front under the command of I. S. Konev, the city was finally taken on May 2, 1945. Zhukov met with Eisenhower in Berlin on May 7-8 before the signing of the unconditional surrender fascist Germany, then, indeed, in Potsdam - at the Conference of Heads of Government of the USSR, USA and Great Britain, which took place from July 17 to August 2. The presence of a field near Potsdam during this period, asserted by the playwright Volodarsky, strewn with the corpses of Russian soldiers for two and a half months, which was not the coldest, only casts doubt on his capacity for sanity, and a lawsuit for defamation, it seems to me, could well have been brought against him as a marshal Zhukov and Army General Eisenhower, may they be alive.
As for Marshal Zhukov, he, indeed, repeatedly expressed his opinion regarding the losses of the Red Army, and his original quotes are easy to find in many published in paper and in electronic format documents. Here, for example, is an indicative fragment of the recording of his negotiations held on March 7, 1942 with the commander of the 49th Army, Lieutenant General I.G. Zakharkin:
“You are wrong to think that successes are achieved with human meat, successes are achieved with the art of combat, they fight with skill, and not with the lives of people.”
However, let's return to the phrase under study. The range of names of those who “pronounced” it is very wide. Thus, Colonel General D. Volkogonov in his opus “Triumph and Tragedy” “overheard” it from Generalissimo Stalin.
And in the book by Alexander Bushkov and Andrei Burovsky “Russia that never existed - 2. Russian Atlantis” historical anecdote, in which it is pronounced by Field Marshal Boris Petrovich Sheremetev:
“The story has been preserved, one of those whose authenticity is difficult to be sure. 1703, storming of Narva. In front of each break in the wall there are piles of corpses - Peter's guards. Peter knew many people personally, and was friends with many. And Peter began to cry, looking at these still warm piles of the dead. Boris Petrovich Sheremetev came up from behind and put his hand on the Tsar’s shoulder. A fifty-year-old caressed a thirty-year-old. “Don’t cry, sir!” What you! Women are giving birth to new ones!“».
However, some believe that Alexander Menshikov said these words to Peter I after the battle with the Swedes, and some believe that Peter Alekseevich himself said them before the Battle of Poltava.
In the Russian-German film “Midshipmen-III” (1992), Field Marshal S.F. Apraksin says during the Battle of Gross-Jägersdorf that horses that are worth money must be taken away, and soldiers and women give birth to new ones. What happens: the screenwriters of this film (N. Sorotokina, Yu. Nagibin and S. Druzhinina) dared to put into the mouth of the noblest nobleman a phrase allegedly uttered almost 200 years after the events depicted in the film by a grunt-marshal of peasant blood?There is also “information” on the Internet that one of the variants of the phrase under study was uttered by Nicholas II, who until historically recent times was called “Bloody”, and is now recognized as “the Passion-Bearer in the host of new martyrs and confessors of Russia”, after learning about the price Brusilovsky breakthrough. However, it was “said” by her and his predecessors Alexander II and Catherine II, as well as other characters in Russian history.
It also cannot be ruled out that the phrase about “they will give birth again” is a “world heritage”. She very cleverly gives an animal image to those into whose mouths she is put.Sometimes authorship " catch phrases and expressions” can be established reliably; So, famous expression “If there is a person, there is a problem, if there is no person, there is no problem.” so talentedly put into the mouth of I.V. Stalin by the writer A.N. Rybakov (“Children of the Arbat”, 1987) that few doubt his “Stalinist” origin. The authorship of the phrase about “women give birth” is not possible to establish due to the lack of documentary sources. Attributing it to any of the historical characters is an activity for all kinds of “word artists”, writers, playwrights, propagandists and publicists, unworthy of a historian.
Everything I found and stated above allows me to categorically state that there is no reliable (documented) evidence that this or a similar phrase was uttered by any of the Soviet commanders.
Consequently, the director of the State Archive of the Russian Federation, Doctor of Historical Sciences, professor and holder of the Order of Honor Sergei Mironenko publicly lied in his interview.
Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister!
By Decree of the President of the Russian Federation No. 1131 of September 20, 2010, Sergei Mironenko was awarded the Order of Honor “for his great contribution to the preservation of the documentary heritage of the peoples of the Russian Federation and many years of conscientious work.” Of course, you know better how he copes with job responsibilities, however, the above casts doubt on his integrity as a scientist.
I ask you to remind government official Sergei Mironenko of his own words:
“Interpretations of events may be different, but we will never clear the truth of ideological layers if we consider as a fact the fiction invented to please the rulers. Then it’s no longer history, not science.”
I am far from thinking that Mr. Mironenko voiced the fiction he invented in order to please any of you.
Therefore, I appeal to you with a request to oblige Mr. Mironenko to make a public apology for his public lie, which insulted the memory of all the dead and deceased Soviet commanders and the dignity of the few living out their lives, a lie that is unworthy and unacceptable for a titled scientist-historian (although this question is more likely not related to to your competence, but rather to his honor and conscience) and even more so for a government official.
Moscow, November 19, 2011
Given open letter was sent by me to recipients through the Internet reception desks of the corresponding sites, and also published on my blog and on my Facebook page.
Being a calm and self-possessed person, I did not rush events, being confident that the machine of at least one of the two addressees would properly process my letter, it would have some effect and entail some consequences either for Mr. Mironenko or for me: after all, I directly accused a government official of lying; Well, how am I wrong, but he is still right?
By the way, the same interview with Mr. Mironenko in the part concerning the feat of Panfilov’s men near Moscow was commented on by Marshal in his open letter Soviet Union D.T. Yazov. The text of his letter in full was published in " Soviet Russia"(http://www.sovross.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=588848).
I consider it appropriate to quote the operative part of the respected marshal’s letter:
“Historian” Mironenko, who has never smelled gunpowder, dares to call the feat of soldiers and commanders a myth Panfilov division, which lost 9,920 people (3,620 killed and 6,300 wounded) in the battles near Moscow out of 11,700 who were listed at the beginning of the battle. By the way, the commander of the 4th German tank group, General Colonel E. Gepner, in one of his reports to the commander of Army Group Center, Field Marshal F. Bock, called Panfilov’s men “a wild division, fighting in violation of all regulations and rules of engagement, whose soldiers they do not surrender, are extremely fanatical and are not afraid of death.”Thousands gave their lives in the battles near Moscow Soviet soldiers. Among them are Hero of the Soviet Union, Major General I.V. Panfilov, 22 of the 28 famous defenders of the Dubosekovo crossing and many, many others. And this is the historical truth. Moscow was defended by people, many of whom laid down their lives in this terrible battle, this is not “fantasy”, as S. Mironenko claims in a conversation with a correspondent of a respected newspaper, this is the truth, this is the bitter truth.
I deliberately put the word “historian” in quotation marks before S. Mironenko’s name, because I believe that a person who hates the history of his homeland, and, judging by the publication of Komsomolskaya Pravda, this is exactly the case, hardly has the right to call himself a scholar-historian.
November 22 I received a notification that my letter addressed to the President was received the day before and registered with the relevant administration under the number A26-13-715736. I received it and calmed down in the hope that everything was going as it should. It turns out I was too optimistic. Weeks passed, but I received no information from either the presidential department or the prime minister’s office. January 24, 2012 I sent a reminder letter through the Internet reception of the President of Russia: so and so, I understand that there were elections to the State Duma and all that, but I would still like to receive a response to letter A26-13-715736, registered by your service on November 21, 2011 of the year.
I received a response on the same day. Well, as an answer, a funny reply: they say that the appeal does not contain data for its consideration. Indicating the number under which my initial appeal was registered was not enough. “Okay,” I thought phlegmatically, “maybe the file was lost, the hard drive became demagnetized, the printout was filled with coffee, I’ll send it again, I’m not proud.”
And he sent it. And then he sent it again.
Then a reshuffle happened, Mr. V.V. Putin became the President again, and Mr. D.A. Medvedev moved to the Chairman of the Government, and I sent my appeal again.
The revival has begun in 2013. First February 8 from the Office of the President of the Russian Federation for working with appeals from citizens and organizations, I was told for the first time something relatively constructive, namely that my letter, this time received number A26-13-17604671, in accordance with its competence, was sent to the Ministry of Education and Science. True, constructiveness turned out to be very relative, and, alas, I never received an answer.
But March 26, 2013 year I received e-mail notification No. 845-06-06 dated March 25, 2013 (some time later it reached me in “live” paper form), this time from the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation, which reported that the Government apparatus had intervened and sent my appeal to them. Deputy Director of the Department of Science and Education - Head of the Department of Libraries and Archives, Mrs. T. L. Manilova, informed me that my claim was being forwarded to the Federal Archival Agency, from which I should now expect a response.
The response from Rosarkhiv was not long in coming. They sent it to me April, 4 under the number R/S-539. The content of the answer, however, boiled down to the worst tradition, attributed for some reason exclusively to the Soviet past: to send a complaint or claim to the very official about whom you are complaining. Yes, my open letter was sent by the Federal Archival Agency to the Director of the State Archives of the Russian Federation S.V. Mironenko for consideration and a response to me.
And here is the execution machine Federal Law dated May 2, 2006 No. 59-FZ “On the procedure for considering appeals from citizens of the Russian Federation” crashed again because
no response from citizen S.V.Mironenko to his accusations and claims against citizen S.V.Mironenko, I am not only established by law deadlines, but to this day I have not received it.
The matter calmed down, there were a lot of problems for both me and the country, and the persecution of one individual official liar was out of my sight. Suddenly I came across a new interview with Mr. Mironenko, this time published on April 20 of this year, 2015 in the Kommersant newspaper (
During the discussion of my posts about historical myths in the interpretation of Doctor of Historical Sciences S. Mironenko, where he calls the feat of Panfilov’s men a fiction, the phrase “Don’t spare soldiers, women still give birth” came up several times, which S. Mironenko attributed in this interview to Klim Voroshilov, but contrary to his usual source of information for some reason didn't name it.
Although he mentioned it several times and in such a description, as if he had heard it himself. In his interview it sounded like this: “Don’t spare the soldiers, the women are still giving birth”?
This phrase is attributed to Georgy Zhukov. In fact, it was said in a different situation and by another military leader - Klim Voroshilov. And a little later, speaking about General Vlasov: “Vlasov was required to withdraw equipment first. Klim Voroshilov demanded, then these words were said to him - “women give birth to soldiers.”
The bloggers who discussed the posts noted that a similar phrase, with slightly modified interpretations, is attributed to many commanders - from Menshikov and Sheremetyev to Zhukov and Voroshilov. I tried to find the source. And I'm not sure I succeeded. But there is something.
At a minimum, it is obvious that if one of the figures of the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War said so, for example, Churchill claimed that he would fight Hitler until the last Russian soldier, then he was certainly not the first.
Moreover, it seems that this expression is almost a kind of banal thought that should be said historical figure at the sight of the dead, so as not to be considered sensitive.
Only before the revolution it was said a little differently: “Take care of your horses, women give birth to soldiers.”
One of the first articles on this topic I came across was a publication entitled “The origin of the phrase: “Don’t spare the soldiers, the women are still giving birth!” The secrecy has been removed.” The article is prefaced with a very intriguing statement: But with all the diversity of candidates for the authors of this " catchphrase", which has become a kind of "meme", you should pay attention to TWO FACTS:
1) None of the authors ranting on this topic (who put this phrase into someone’s mouth - for example, “the bloody Stalinist butcher Marshal Zhukov said to Eisenhower: “There are a lot of soldiers! Why feel sorry for them? Women are still giving birth!”) no links to real ones historical documents, where this phrase is fixed, so to speak.
2) All the “authors” of the “meme” who pronounce this phrase are Russian. And not simple ones, but major military leaders(Apraksin, Menshikov, Zhukov...) or state leaders (Peter I, Catherine the Great,...). In light of which, this phrase, and this story become openly Russophobic, with a clearly expressed openly Hitlerite-fascist allusion to the inferiority of the Russian nation and its leaders.
From where, the continuation automatically follows (the “second episode” of the Russophobic movie) - “They filled them up with corpses! That’s why they won! The Russians (Stalin, Zhukov, Bolsheviks, commies,...) don’t know how to fight any other way!!!”
It all ends with the “fourth episode”: “But in the West (Americans, Germans, Tsarist Russia...)..." In fact, this phrase came to Russia from England.
On English fleet There was a tradition that when a warship was sunk (in battle), the captain or senior officer said the ritual phrase: “The king has a lot!”
How did the phrase come to Russia and come into use?
She got there thanks to this person:
And what follows is a fragment of a letter from Alexandra Feodorovna to her husband Nicholas II, written in 1916. And there is a phrase in it: " The generals know that we still have many soldiers in Russia, and therefore they do not spare lives"Actually, the phrase sounded a little different. But the idea was conveyed correctly.
"I can't remain silent!
On July 7, 2011, the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper published an interview between Larisa Kaftan and the Director of the State Archives of the Russian Federation, Doctor of Historical Sciences Sergei Mironenko. In this interview, he said, in particular (answer to the fourth question of the published text):
“For the Soviet government, it didn’t matter who was a hero or who was not a hero; in general, a person was nothing. The famous words of the Soviet commander: “We need to save the equipment, but women give birth to new soldiers” - this is about the attitude towards people. Therefore, there is no need to repeat the historical inventions of the Soviet regime and worship non-existent idols, just as we should not forget real heroes. After all, there were real heroes, they defended Moscow, but no one cared about them then.
There is such a thing as historical truth. Interpretations of events may be different, but we will never clear the truth of ideological layers if we consider as a fact the fiction invented to please the rulers. Then it’s no longer history, not science.”
It was surprising that, when quoting a certain “Soviet commander,” Mr. Mironenko did not mention his name, but the destiny of a scientist-historian is the accuracy of facts. Actually, in the same answer he says: “Interpretations of events may be different, but we will never clear the truth of ideological layers if we consider as a fact the fiction invented to please the rulers. Then it’s no longer history, not science.”
I decided to find the truth and establish the fact - who is this ruthless Soviet commander who uttered the phrase quoted by Mr. Mironenko, for which I used the full power of the World Wide Web, namely the Google and Yandex search services.
However, all references to this phrase in the form as Mr. Mironenko quoted it lead exclusively to... the same interview of Mr. Mironenko with Komsomolskaya Pravda, to discussions of this interview or to other attempts to find out its authorship caused by this interview.
Having made the search conditions softer, I discovered that in Runet (that is, in the Russian-language part of the Internet) a similar phrase is attributed to Marshal S. M. Budyonny, who, as commander of the Reserve Front (that is, in September or October 1941), allegedly said: “We bombarded them with cannon fodder, why should we feel sorry for the soldiers, the women are giving birth to new ones. But where can I get horses?”
The phrase sounds dashing, but none of the resources citing it has the slightest indication of the original source. At the same time, I am absolutely sure that if such a source existed in reality, it would not be at all difficult to find such a convincing propaganda trump card.
One might even think that the original source of this quote, somewhat reinterpreted, is the story “The Tribunal” by Mikhail Weller (first published in Ogonyok No. 24/4699, 2001):
“Budyonny was covered with small beads and scratched with a feather. Gorky cleared his throat loudly into his handkerchief, blew his nose and wiped away his tears:
- Darling, don’t you feel sorry for the soldiers who were killed in vain? Writhing on the ice with a buckshot bullet in your stomach is not comme il faut... in the sense of not comfort. Worse than a noose. But all the Russian people, yesterday’s peasants... you deceived them, they trusted you.
- And for us nobles, only our tummy is dear.
Budyonny was glad to have the opportunity to break away from the letter.
“And the soldiery, the cannon fodder, the gray cattle - we don’t give a damn about the smoke, it doesn’t move.” Zhukov waved his hand: “Soldiers will give birth to new women for you.” Russia is great. I would put it to work - it wouldn’t be a pity. The operation was unsuccessful. Criminal!”
However, here the words dedicated to the childbearing duties of long-suffering Russian women are put into the mouth of a new historical character - Marshal G.K. Zhukov.
That these words were spoken by Zhukov was authoritatively told to the people by Eduard Volodarsky, the author of the script for the series “Penal Battalion,” in an interview with Mark Deitch, published in the newspaper “Moskovsky Komsomolets” No. 1386 dated December 22, 2001.
“- In one of your interviews you called Zhukov a “butcher”...
- It wasn’t me who called him that. That's what the soldiers called him - at the front Zhukov had a nickname: Butcher. For some reason, everyone forgets about Zhukov’s attitude towards the soldiers. General Eisenhower writes in his memoirs how he saw a huge field near Potsdam, covered with the corpses of Russian soldiers. Fulfilling Zhukov's orders, they stormed the city head-on - under dagger fire from the Germans.
The sight of this field amazed Eisenhower. He felt uneasy, and he asked Zhukov (not literally, but I vouch for the meaning): “Why the hell did this Potsdam surrender to you? Why did you sacrifice so many people for him?”
In response, Zhukov smiled and said (I remembered these words, reproduced by Eisenhower): “It’s okay, Russian women are still giving birth.”
Marshal Zhukov possessed the cruelty that has long been a characteristic feature of Russian generals. Only a few took care of the soldiers. Suvorov, Brusilov, Kornilov... That's probably all. The other soldiers did not spare them. And the Soviet generals were no better"
Dwight Eisenhower’s book “The Crusade in Europe” mentions various points that can be interpreted ambiguously, but this or a similar phrase allegedly heard by the future US president from Zhukov is not only not in the Russian translation, but also in the English original.
In addition, Potsdam was taken by the 1st Ukrainian Front under the command of I. S. Konev, the city was finally taken on May 2, 1945.
Zhukov met with Eisenhower in Berlin on May 7-8 before signing the Act of Unconditional Surrender of Nazi Germany, then, indeed, in Potsdam - at the Conference of Heads of Government of the USSR, USA and Great Britain, which took place from July 17 to August 2.
The presence of a field near Potsdam during this period, asserted by the playwright Volodarsky, strewn with the corpses of Russian soldiers for two and a half months, which was not the coldest, only casts doubt on his capacity for sanity, and a lawsuit for defamation, it seems to me, could well have been brought against him as a marshal Zhukov and Army General Eisenhower, may they be alive.
As for Marshal Zhukov, he, indeed, has repeatedly expressed his opinion about the losses of the Red Army, and his original quotes can be easily found in many documents published in paper and electronic form. Here, for example, is an indicative fragment of the recording of his negotiations held on March 7, 1942 with the commander of the 49th Army, Lieutenant General I. G. Zakharkin:
“You are wrong to think that successes are achieved by human meat, successes are achieved by the art of combat, they fight with skill, and not with the lives of people.”
However, let's return to the phrase under study. The range of names of those who “pronounced” it is very wide.
Thus, Colonel General D. Volkogonov in his opus “Triumph and Tragedy” “overheard” it from Generalissimo Stalin.
And in the book by Alexander Bushkov and Andrei Burovsky “Russia that never existed - 2. Russian Atlantis” there is a historical anecdote in which it is uttered by Field Marshal General Boris Petrovich Sheremetev:
“The story has been preserved, one of those whose authenticity is difficult to be sure. 1703, storming of Narva. In front of each break in the wall there are piles of corpses - Peter's guards. Peter knew many people personally, and was friends with many. And Peter began to cry, looking at these still warm piles of the dead. Boris Petrovich Sheremetev came up from behind and put his hand on the Tsar’s shoulder. A fifty-year-old caressed a thirty-year-old. “Don’t cry, sir!” What you! Women are giving birth to new ones!”
However, some believe that Alexander Menshikov said these words to Peter I after the battle with the Swedes, and some believe that Peter Alekseevich himself said them before the Battle of Poltava.
In the Russian-German film “Midshipmen-III” (1992), Field Marshal S. F. Apraksin says during the Battle of Gross-Jägersdorf that horses that cost money must be taken away, and soldiers and women give birth to new ones. .
What happens: the screenwriters of this film (N. Sorotokina, Yu. Nagibin and S. Druzhinina) dared to put into the mouth of a noble nobleman a phrase allegedly uttered almost 200 years after the events depicted in the film by a grunt-marshal of peasant blood?
There is also “information” on the Internet that one of the variants of the phrase under study was uttered by Nicholas II, who until historically recent times was called “Bloody”, and is now recognized as “the Passion-Bearer in the host of new martyrs and confessors of Russia”, having learned about the cost of Brusilov’s breakthrough.
However, it was “spoken” by her and his predecessors Alexander II and Catherine II, as well as other characters in Russian history. It also cannot be ruled out that the phrase about “they will give birth again” is a “world heritage”. She very cleverly gives an animal image to those into whose mouths she is put.
Sometimes the authorship of “catchphrases and expressions” can be reliably established; yes, the famous expression “If there is a person, there is a problem, if there is no person, there is no problem.” so talentedly put into the mouth of I.V. Stalin by the writer A.N. Rybakov (“Children of the Arbat”, 1987) that few doubt his “Stalinist” origin.
(quoted in part)
There are many respected liberator warriors, including in general's uniform. But I can’t understand why some are so aggressively defending the name of the praised Soviet propaganda“military leader”, who was killed near Kiev (more precisely, drowned in the Dnieper, as historians say), more than 400 thousand Soviet soldiers? Declassified archives indicate that the losses of the Red Army would have been much smaller if Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Zhukov, as a representative of the headquarters in the troops of the Voronezh Front (later 1st Ukrainian, which hosted the capital of Ukraine) and the commander of this front, Army General Nikolai Vatutin, had not rushed to fulfill Stalin's whim - to liberate Kyiv at any cost by November 6, 1943, the next anniversary of the revolution.
The command of the Red Army was well aware that our troops were not ready to cross the Dnieper, beyond which the enemy had managed to fortify well. But no one paid attention to this. We were supposed to crush the Germans (as happened more than once during the war) with “live meat.” Therefore, Zhukov’s “Don’t feel sorry for the soldiers: women are still giving birth!” sounded like an order. And the “liberator” of Kyiv, Vatutin, drove hundreds of thousands of fighters, including even teenagers, into the cold Dnieper water.
This is confirmed by the Doctor of Historical Sciences, teacher of Kyiv national university named after Taras Shevchenko Victor Korol, who cites the memories of medical instructor Tatyana Barabash about the so-called field military registration and enlistment offices: to the Ukrainian huts of those already liberated settlements Left Bank, and subsequently Right Bank Ukraine 20-30 soldiers with 2-3 officers burst in and dragged all the men out into the street. Each of them was already an enemy because he lived under the Germans.
Tatyana recalled how in September 1943 in Trebukhov (Brovary district Kyiv region) a meeting took place, in which Zhukov, Rokossovsky and assistant Vatutina Kovalenko took part. “The question arose of what to do with 300 thousand mobilized teenagers. It was necessary to outfit them, teach them, feed them, conduct training, and then throw them into attacks. Zhukov summed it up clearly and clearly. He says: why are we, friends, racking our brains, all crests are traitors, the more we drown in the Dnieper, the fewer will have to be exiled to Siberia after the war!”
Therefore, the fate of these young men and men of military age was determined. For in the interpretation of the NKVD, Smersh and other Soviet repressive bodies they all served the Nazis. "Khokhols" were not given any military uniform, no weapons. Wearing home clothes (usually black, which is why this army was called “black infantry” or “black shirts”) they also obtained weapons in battle.
Eyewitnesses of the battle for Kyiv (historians have even found stories from German officers) recall how one general cried, seeing how cold water carried away hundreds of bodies of the “black infantry”. The guys drowned not only because they were hit by bullets and fragments of German shells, which fell like hail, but also because... they did not know how to swim. Some kind of German officer, looking at the senseless murder of unfired youth, exclaimed: “It’s like not loving your soldiers in order to send them to certain death.”
By the way, in the German army they treated the rank and file quite differently: after Battle of Kursk, saving the soldiers, Field Marshal Manstein carried out a brilliant operation, transporting four German armies. With six bridges across the river that were not destroyed, he evacuated at first 200 thousand wounded German soldiers and hundreds of thousands of civilian Ukrainian population, mostly with livestock, who did not want to live “under the Bolsheviks.” And then almost a million combat-ready units crossed over.
Hitler's tank general Routh wrote that the success of the crossing of German troops was ensured by... the Red Army. "To our surprise, soviet planes did not show up until 90% of our troops, weapons and equipment had completed the crossing.”
Vatutin’s defenders, of course, don’t know all this (although they could read it on the Internet if they wanted). Therefore, in order for this Kiev public, zombified by Soviet propaganda, to cool down somewhat, I suggest they swim across the Dnieper from the left bank to the right. Not even in cold water, like in 1943, but in warm water today. Without clothes, which pulls to the bottom, without weapons and not under machine-gun fire. Maybe then not Vatutin, but those whom he drowned will be pitied?